Actions have Consequences: COVID Edition

So last week, Msgr. Charles Pope, who has downplayed, belittled, and berated Catholics for taking COVID seriously was diagnosed with COVID. I join my prayers with many others for his swift and complete recovery. I pray, even more, that he repent the incredibly scandalous Qatholic folly he has promoted to the endangerment of his life and the lives of some many of the flock.

Dawn Eden Goldstein speaks the hard truth that just because you are a victim does not mean you cannot be an irresponsible and selfish person who endangers himself and leads others to endanger themselves and to selfishly spread the twin diseases of COVID and selfishness:

We are punished by, not for, our sins. I do not believe for one second that God “gave” Msgr. Pope COVID as a “punishment”. God gave him and the rest of us responsible people, good science, and sane and simple things to do–like wearing masks. But for some insane reason having entirely to do with Qatholic ideology and nothing to do with Catholic theology, lots of Catholics deliberately choose to engage in high risk behaviors and therefore to court completely foreseeable and completely avoidable consequences for themselves and the people around them about whom they clearly do not care.

The irony is breathtaking:


And when you state these common sense fact out loud, the Party of Personal Responsibility–which stands ready always to gloat, “That’s what you get!” when somebody loses their home for failure to pay rent in the midst of the worst economic catastrophe of our lifetime, which demands poor families somehow provide for multiple children but demands they do so by begging on GoFundMe, and which sneers at considerate people as cowards for looking out for their vulnerable neighbor–shrieks that you are “gloating” over the misfortune of people like Msgr. Pope.

Because they always project their own sins on their culture war enemies.

Here’s reality: it is not “gloating” to hope that a massively irresponsible shepherd learn some elementary facts about science, about the common good, and about caring for his neighbor instead of encouraging politicized Qatholics to selfishly spread both disease and contempt for quiet, humble, considerate brothers and sisters.

I will freely confess frustration with the Qatholic cult of hostility to science, contempt, and the common good. But what I want of them–what all sane people want of them–is not that they sicken or die, but that they just do a tiny bit of what Jesus asks, take up their masks and follow him.

God grant Msgr. Pope and the rest of his followers and admirers the wisdom to at long last do the minor things God asks of them out of consideration for others, and a long life to practice Catholic, not Qatholic, piety.


42 Responses

  1. Thanks for giving a more complete report than I saw on the news. I was tempted to interpret his “do not cower advice” as a current version of “be not afraid.” Alas, I was wrong. However, I am delighted to see that David French quote.

    1. The thing is that “be not afraid” just does not mean one can act irresponsibly and expect God to protect from the consequences. To me, it means to do the best I can, and if it not enough to be perfectly safe, God will be with me to give me help and comfort.

      1. @Marthe:

        5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

        “ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,

        and they will lift you up in their hands,

        so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ c ”

        7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

  2. I am old enough to remember when Catholics were skeptical of evolution or made off the wall connections between contraception and cancer or abortion and cancer or who knows what. When I was a catholic I had a priest who said homosexuality was a choice because there was a literal Adam and Eve (or some anti evolution crap)

    It’s great to see Catholics finally accepting science.

    1. Does embracing ”science”, as a Catholic, or as anyone else really, mean rejecting the idea that there was a literal Adam and Eve, or rejecting the idea that homsexuality is a choice, or both?

      1. @ Steve

        And in case your answer was meant as an invitation to dialogue: any sexual act is a choice, for the simple reason one can commit it or not. As for the the desire, the idea that it human sexuality is a matter of nature only, and in no degree a matter of nurture, is untenable.

        Therefore, both on the invidual level and the societal level, speaking of ”choice” is not entirely wrong.

      2. @artevelde

        I’ll tell you what our choice is, But first, I’ll tell you what it is not. Our choice is not whether we are gay, or heterosexual, or bisexual. That is not a matter of choice for the vast majority of just about everyone.

        Our choice is whether we are going to live our lives fully, completely, and authentically, after the nature in which we are made. In the old days, they used to use the term “crime against nature“ to describe gay people and our lives. that was how they described “the choice“ that Gay people made.

        The crimes against our nature –2000 years of evil laws, jails, suicides, murders, beatings, destroyed families, destroyed lives, destroyed careers, kids committing suicide because they saw no alternative in their lives thanks to the toxic spew Of so-called Godly so called good so called Loving so called people…

        …lies, slanders, and reviling on a grand scale, as was done to those baby-jesus-murdering jews, and all for the crime of bring different in a way that scares the living bejesus out of those “so called” people…

        Never even enters into their thoughts.

        God is used to justify what can be justified by any other means. If you want to understand my use of the term “purely theological concerns“, you have it in spades right there.

      3. I was told by certain celebrity Catholics that there was a literal garden and literal Adam and Eve. Most catholic exegetes now deny this. I’m glad that the church has grown on this issue. That last catholic priest I met said genesis is a fairy tale. Most catholic commentators on the Old Testament accept the JDPD hypothesis.

      4. I think there is a genetic predisposition to sexual orientation. My homosexual orientation is not sinful and my desire to spend my life with a male partner isn’t sinful. The church is coming around to that. Mark and Father Martin are leading the way

  3. The July 27 episode of “Morning Glory”, in which Msgr. Pope refers to “lukewarm” Catholics, had the subtitle of “Going Too Far with COVID-19 Precautions”.

    Gloria Purvis is the voice of reason on that show.

    Msgr. Pope only acknowledged that he had asthma after Purvis referred to asthma being an underlying condition.

  4. My very astute spiritual director advised me not to read Msgr. Charles Pope (and all those of his same ilk) nine years ago.

    While Msgr. Pope is gifted and correct about many things,he has made so many vindictive comments and focused so much on eternal damnation of souls, I found that he only brought consternation to my soul.

    How many good, and persuasive writers and orators use 90-95-98% of the truth in order to corrupt their audience?

    I hope Msgr. Pope recovers and takes this time to reflect.

  5. Who says the rosary with a bullhorn? Sheesh.

    That’ll convert ’em.

    Like Mary can’t hear our inside voices? So crass.

  6. I remember reading some Dawn Eden Goldstein back when she was Dawn Eden. I remember thinking of her as rather conservative. Just shows that modern “conservatives” such as Msgr. Pope have really taken an extreme position.

      1. @workbeastie

        I come from a centre-right position, where it was always a matter of pride not just to oppose the left and centre-left, but perhaps even more so to shield ourselves from excesses to the right. It’s rather disappointing to see how so many and bought so easily, and so cheaply.

      2. @Artevelde

        I once took an online test that put me right in the Centre. Not sure how accurate those are, and there are probably so many different ones that give different results, but that one result was interesting. I do seem to take to heart Aristotle’s theory that virtue lies between two vices, thus I tend to be wary of extremes.

        I share your disappointment in the lack of depth of thought and character of so many over here in the US. It’s almost as if we need some sort of back-to-basics. Love God. Love your neighbor. Share your Talents. Be a servant. Be a leader.

        Hard to implement though in this culture of “It’s all about me, and all of you be damned.”

    1. I’ve already seen some comments on other blogs that Msgr. Pope becoming ill and getting better proves he was right – that this really isn’t much of anything to worry about and we are overreacting.

  7. We’re never going to get rid of this plague until Trump’s out, and even then, there are just too many villains and ideologues and idiots in this country. It’s tragic.

  8. Qatholics are always saying Pope Francis is ‘confusing’ (which I’ve never found) but I find them so very, very confusing. The psychological definition of a person without empathy for others or sensitivity to a common good and irrationally defiant of authority, was ‘sociopath’, but those traits seem to be filtering more and more into acceptable mainstream traits.

    1. We are turning into the Israelites of the last 5 chapters of the book of Judges. “In those days, Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit.”

  9. @ Artevelde, literal Adam and Eve doesn’t bother me, because I’m literally like Adam and Eve. Lol

    To think that God is offended less by heterosexual sin, is clearly stated by someone heterosexual. Also, I’m sure that if everything was about orientation/inclination, the sidewalks wouldn’t be safe from 18 – 29 year olds of the male persuasion *including* a minority of rogue females which would make men feel much better about themselves.

    1. I’m not sure how to interpret the orientation/inclination part, but I do agree that the idea that God is offended less by heterosexual sin, is a falsehood.

      1. Well, I guess I’m cutting off at the pass the type of person who would excuse themselves of their actions based on being “made that way”. And really, I don’t think we need to know the how and why.

        Nobody gets a free pass due to their inclinations, (women being thrown onto the back of a horse or dragged by their hair into a cave –I actually met a lady in Mexico who had been “robbed” from a convent by her future husband..)

    2. “I’m sure that if everything was about orientation/inclination, the sidewalks wouldn’t be safe from 18 – 29 year olds of the male persuasion *including* a minority of rogue females which would make men feel much better about themselves”
      This gets why LGBT people have a problem with the church entirely backwards. It’s not at all that LGBT people are saying that they are physically compelled to have sex with people of the same sex. A heterosexual person not suitable for and called to celibacy can be “chaste”, in the Catholic sense, through marriage. They can exercise their full capacity for self-giving love in a lifelong committed relationship to another who loves them. Even if they are not lucky enough to experience this, their capacity for love and desire for love is recognised as good, not evil, and it is circumstances, not God which denies them.
      What the church tells a gay person, on the other hand, is that this good is not for them: that their nature is second rate and defective and their desire to love and for the joy of family life and lifelong committed companionship is a sin. The best they can hope for is (if they accept the church’s teaching) is a lifetime of unrequited yearning and unfulfilled deeply human need, or (if they reject it) that God will punish them for exercising their full capacity for love with another person.

      1. @ iain

        You understand the problem exactly. As I have often said, gay marriage didn’t redefine marriage, it redefined gay people As no longer the Cultural, legal, moral, emotional, social, Marital, familial, sexual and Human inferiors of heterosexuals.

        And therein liesthe whole problem. We’re being uppity, we don’t know our place, we don’t accept the place that our “betters” have assigned to us.

        And why have they assigned this place to us? Because God told them to. It’s right there in the book of Leviticus, “ Thou shall not bake cakes for Homo’s, lest they think they are as Good As You.“

  10. I am, quite frankly, very angry. When I talk to these “pro-lifers” about the need to provide support for those experiencing a crisis pregnancy (prenatal healthcare, WIC, TANF, food stamps, paid medical leave, accommodations at work, childcare, etc), they just huff and puff. This has no bearing on the pro-life movement! She should figure all that out herself! No inconvenience is too great! To even bring that up is to remove her responsibility! There is no excuse!

    And now, here we are, with these twits being required to do something to save others, and all of a sudden it’s their right to do with their body what they want, death comes for everyone, jobs/the economy is super duper important, blah blah blah.

    It’s almost as if “life” was never the priority to them.

  11. There is no covid 19 virus. It’s never been isolated and proven to exist. 99.7% recovery rate from this glorified flu. The masks damage the immune system. That’s why they are being forced. It’s all a plan to force a killer vaccine after destroying the economy.

    1. I’m letting this comment stand, just as an opportunity for sane people to reply to your idiot conspiracy theory. I’m also blocking you, because I don’t have time for whack conspiracy theorist to suck all the oxygen out of the room.

    2. Dear Mr. Poe,

      Yes, we do indeed know your real name. Goldenmouth doesn’t post here, having been dead for centuries and having no access to a computer.

      So this is all a hoax that the entire world has been in on— every mayor of every city, every governor of every state, every president or PM of every country, every airline. Oh yes. And every surgeon in the entire world.

      Its all a massive, massive Plot to do something or other to you, because you are so very very special. And you and your comrades are the only ones who know about it, because you are so very, very special.

      How is the weather in Moscow, because I’m ready to call TWA and book my flight.

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